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From: owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com (Traveller-digest)
To: traveller-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
Subject: Traveller-digest V1996 #760
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Traveller-digest      Monday, December 16 1996      Volume 1996 : Number 760



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Vampire Fleets
FF&S "Modules" for T4 ship design - Competition
"Travelleresque" artists
An idea for presentation/future books etc...
TDX my ar$e!
Bell End
Re: Admin Question
Deckplans
Re: Joe's List
Re: Imperium Games, Starships, future products
Starships etc.
RE: Is T4 Innovative? 
IG, please note!
Re: Is T4 Innovative?
Unwise order of publication!
Re: Deckplans
Re: Foss art, etc
Re: Admin Question
RE: Writing Contest Update
Re: Strength of Aslans and Domain of Deneb (Long)
Re: Starship construction
Small Craft in Starships are Broken!
Luxury Liner

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 96 17:40:05 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: Vampire Fleets

     Somebody asked about copies of Vampire Fleets. 
     
     Napoleon's Military Bookshop, on Pitt St in Sydney, has a couple of 
     copies left. 
     
     Before all you Yanks start booing and hissing, Napoleon's will take 
     mail orders with credit card numbers. 
     
     Their phone number is 02-9264 7560, with whatever additions you need 
     for international dialling. 

------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 96 17:57:53 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: FF&S "Modules" for T4 ship design - Competition

     Has anybody developed modular packages using FF&S that they think 
     would be useful to add to T4 ships? Let's start a competition; here 
     are the limits: 
     
     TL=9 to 12. 
     Components must be useful in T4 ships (ie 5,000t or less). 
     
     Ideas: modular cutter customised modules, weapon 'pods' for fighters 
     or starships, laboratory 'pods', hospital modules, workshops, sensor 
     suites, detachable weapon drones (ie fighter-size), ... ? 
     
     The prize? Universal recognition for your efforts. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 02:10:07 -0500
From: Rick Baumhauer <sennafan@rust.net>
Subject: "Travelleresque" artists

Jerry Alexandratos wrote:
>: other artists? A few names mentioned are all ones I'd long to see back with
>: Traveller:
>: 
>: Liz Danforth
>: Blair Reynolds
>: Ken Frank
>: David Dietrick
>: Donna Barr

>Uhm, John, you forgot to mention Rob Caswell.  8(

And let's not forget Tom Peters (who did very nice ship illustrations)
and Mike Vilardi, who does fantastic character work.  Vilardi is
currently doing very nice work for WEG on Star Wars - his art is one of
the few things I really like about that game system any more.........

Rick
- -- 
"If they think you're crude, go technical; 
if they think you're technical, go crude.  
I'm a very technical boy.  
So I decided to get as crude as possible."
					             
		William Gibson, "Johnny Mnemonic", 1981

------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 96 18:44:57 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: An idea for presentation/future books etc...

     ...talk to me, Joe...
     
     How about making future T4 books (including reprintings of T4 and 
     Starships books) ring-punched, and sell ring binders complete with 
     gorgeous looking colour plates to those that *want* expensive looking 
     art. Those that don't, can use ordinary ring binders (this is market 
     segmentation or 2-part pricing for any economists out there). 
     
     A further refinement - 2 different releases for each T4 book: one 
     'book' (colour plates, possibly hardcover, non-punched, price/quality 
     up with industry standard) as the flagship; another (hole punched, no 
     colour plates except cover, priced lower than most other games) for 
     the budget-conscious. The hole punched version would basically be a 
     cheaper reprint of the main book, with the expensive bits extracted. 
     
     Updates/errata etc. can be printed as complete replacement pages, and 
     inserted in place of the error-ridden pages (a la military manuals). 
     
     Selling point would be the continuing support that IG gives its 
     customers (ie justifying the price tag by distributing free/cheap 
     errata pages via the same channels they distribute the books). 
     
     The T4 'system' books could be set up as chapters of a large 'volume'. 
     Thus MMT (book 1) would have chapters 1.1, 1.2, pages 1.2.12 and so 
     on. Starships would be 2.1, 2.2 etc. 
     
     The advantage of this is that IG could periodically update a 
     consolidated index that refers throughout the entire body of work, 
     making T4 a new standard in gamer-friendliness and usefulness. 
     Cynically, this would also induce people to 'complete' their 
     collection, because the holes would be bleedingly obvious...but that's 
     just basic marketing. 
     

------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 96 18:50:28 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: TDX my ar$e!

     TDX? What a joke. Just use a shaped-charge mine that spits a white-hot 
     slug of molten copper right through the beastie's heart! 

------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 96 19:13:52 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: Bell End

     Ha, ha, ha. Most amusing. However, the term "Bell End" doesn't 
     actually mean anything down here. 
     
     If you're done laughing at Aussie place names, I have a map of the 
     British Isles at home. It has every third place name circled for 
     future reference in a porno Traveller scenario I have planned...the 
     town of Cockermouth being only the least offensive of them all. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 19:30:12 
From: jamesd@spirit.com.au (James Dempsey)
Subject: Re: Admin Question

Hello Lan,

> Could someone please post the correct address for Majordomo of this list.

  Either traveller-request@mpgn.com or majordomo@list.mpgn.com. Both work, I
believe.

> Also looked for a FAQ and the site ftp.mpgn.com doesn't respond.  Where did
> everything go?

  Try http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd/tml-faq.html for the FAQ. Also, I will
post the FAQ here later this week.  As for ftp.mpgn.com, it has just worked for
me, so I am not really sure what is going on there.

> Thanks in advance.

  No problems.

BFN,
James Dempsey
- ---------------------------------------------
 email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
 homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 10:36:47 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Deckplans

The accumulated wisdom for deckplans to date is:
>>          1)  Blank space - all interior hull space should be used
<SNIP LIST>
>           8)  Don't forget essential parts of the design (like
>               AIRLOCKS!)

Anyone who's got a copy of The Long Way Home care to comment about the
deckplans in the back of that? How about any members who saw the full-colour
"Eagle" liner deckplans we used for the Traveller tournament at Euro GEN CON
this year? These plans include internal pictorial detail of all rooms, plus
The Long Way Home included a 'walk through' description by the ship's
engineer. I am proud to say that in TLWH we very much tried to emulate the
quality of previous DGP products.

Oh, and for anyone complaining about artwork, TLWH doesn't have any room
inside for spare artwork - the only 'art' are the plans, maps, etc. you need
to run the adventure. No wasted space, no conflict over who should have
drawn what sort of blob spacecraft with a crane (and just so you know, I
count Chris Foss as a friend, so be careful what you say)...

The "Eagle" may well be released as a BITS/CORE product in 1997, with a
series of linked adventures...

And for all those people in the US waiting to get hold of The Long Way Home,
I apologise for the delay in getting it over to you, but we are currently in
discussion with Imperium Games with regard to TLWH being released as an
official IG publication. If you'd like to see TLWH as an IG product, then
e-mail Imperium Games and tell them so! :-)

Andy Lilly
Chief Idiot at:
CORE (Traveller Product Development)
BITS (British Isles Traveller Support)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:00:23 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Joe's List

          >>That Computer Guy wrote:
          >>> That said, I will mention that hands down, bar none, Rob Caswell *
          is*
          >>>Traveller art.  Everything he did was simply beautiful and well
          laid
          >>> out.  And his equipment drawings were spectacular to boot!
          >>
          >> Add Blair Reynolds to the list of artists that ARE Traveller

>Joe wrote:
          >Am I the only one who liked Liz Danforth's work?

No, count me in as a LizFan.

          While we're on the subject, would there be any interest in a kind of
          'art index' that would provide details of what pictures were where
          in the Traveller corpus?

          Has something like that been done?

          If not, I would envisage it containing info such as:

          artist
          source (book and page number)
          colour/b&w
          type of picture (this is outside my expertise if anyone can advise)
          size
          subject (with perhaps some loose definitions)
          keywords (so you could track down every picture containing say, a
          Vargr)



          Can anyone add to the list?

          With various commitments this is not something I will be undertaking
          this year :-)  but if there was sufficient interest....

          tc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 04:07:21 -0800
From: jbucsek@bigfoot.com (John Buscek)
Subject: Re: Imperium Games, Starships, future products

I haven't seen Starships yet, and I've looked at but not yet purchased T4.  But
as for improvements, I would just say look at some of the CT products like
Book 0 and
the Scout ship detailed in that, or even Supplement 7 Traders and Gunboats
or the
Safari ship adventure.  Those are the sort of Starship plans and details I
look for
in a product.  DGP's ships are done up even better, so Imperium Games should
look at the history of products and build on that.  We ALL refer back to CT and
that should tell everybody something!
John Bucsek          | 
jbucsek@bigfoot.com  | <-- Preferred
gambrinus@rosey.com  | <-- Last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 04:13:44 -0800
From: jbucsek@bigfoot.com (John Buscek)
Subject: Starships etc.

I just wanted to clarify my thinking from my last post.  I like to see different
designs for the same function.  I like the mileau 0 look of starships.  But
a scout courier is still a scout courier.  Approx. the same displacement,
crew, and
performance.  But different manufacturers ships should look different.  I
was just
refering back to the CT material in reference to the form and content.

John Bucsek          | 
jbucsek@bigfoot.com  | <-- Preferred
gambrinus@rosey.com  | <-- Last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:17:58 UT
From: Rob Brennan <robert.brennan@isocor.ie>
Subject: RE: Is T4 Innovative? 

lotsa people posted rather defensive answers to this
question by Harold Hale, I'd like to make a more positive
answer.

1. I think the task system is a good compromise between
the (reputed) complexity of MT and the dated CT system.
I know the difficulties are a bit off but this will suit a more
heroic style of game and is easily fixed by those of us that
prefer more grit under our fingernails

2. I think the new Psionics system is a bit more interesting than
previous incarnations.  Athough I haven't really read it with game
balance in mind (yet).

3. As many people on the GDW-Beta list have said, the introduction
of structure points in space-combat is a good addition (even if the
space cbt has other flaws)

4. T4 seems to have succeeded in finding common ground amongst
traveller players - a few months ago we couldn't even have a unified list.

5. I think the char gen succeeds in unifying the old advanced/basic
systems so that there is no longer a 2-tier system of character types.

6. <Warning, I'm going to mention Chris Foss, please skip this point if 
you're easilly offended>  The production value of the game is much higher
than any previous version of trav.  There has never been so much good
art in a trav product and the use of full-colour spread through the basic book
is unequalled in any previous incarnation.

regards
rob

Visit Wasteland Games home page http:/indigo.ie/~waste

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:00:34 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: IG, please note!

Sadly, i feel that IG products are grossly overpriced, too, compared 
to other game companies.
Just take a look, for example at the later boxed sets by T$R 
(boo,hiss): You pay 30 $ and get at least 2-3 booklets with 4-color 
art, 2-3 maps and counter sheets. That's only 50 % more money for i 
don't know how much more content compared with Starships.
Granted, IG doesn't have the same turnover, but it should work harder 
at keeping the prices low and the useful gaming stuff up.
Keep the full color plates out of the books and only use them for 
front and back-covers, for example. I liked the DGP way of doing the 
art much better, spreading lots of B/W illus that relate to the 
information detailed in the text out over the book instead of putting 
in (admittedly beautiful, but useless) full color art with no 
relation to the data presented.

In short, find a cheaper printer, lose the full color bits and do 
more B/W art, maybe asking some of the old guard (Blair Reynolds 
springs to my mind) if they wanted to do some art.

Secondly, think before yopu publish! Check and doublecheck the data 
presented to the effect that it stays consistent (Thrusterplates-TL 
is one such example for louzy checking) with the rest of the 
material. Having published only two manuals and already such 
contradictions spells no good for the future!  

Lastly, advertize your products where people will see it, i.e. in 
larger gaming magazines like Dragon, Pyramid and the like (simple 
reviews don't count). Full page adds that excite the future customer 
and point him to the game. Some stores i have seen don't even put the 
new rules manual on the "New arrivals" shelf, but directly to the old 
Traveller items, because general lack of promotion makes them feel 
that the space is better used on other items that have higher sales 
expectancy (like the new T$R super supplement). Big companies can 
afford only to advertize in their own Mags since they are standards 
everybody reads, small ones like IG can't!

Just my 2 pfennig!



V.A.G.       
- ------ Volker A. Greimann............Grei5001@uni-trier.de ----
- ------ Gamer, Student of Law, Secret Master, Bane of DOS ---- 

- -"Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!"

FNORD!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:59:29 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Is T4 Innovative?

Harold D. Hale asked:

>
>I ask the question, "is T4 innovative?" because I'm trying to think
>of some aspect of the game that is not just a recycling of something
>else.  Could the truly hardcore fans of T4 among us list those things
>that T4 does that have never been done before, or are being done in a
>unique way?  I was discussing T4 with a friend, and came up empty.
>

        No.  I'd think that in general, it's hard to be innovative in the
RPG field.  Essentially, each genre (fantasy, SF, horror, etc) seems to
develp from a matching genre of geek literature/cinema.  I think that
innovation in RPGs lies in either doing a good job of opening up a new
genre (such as White Wolf with Vampire and perhaps Mage) or in coming up
with a fundamentally different gaming system (such as the transition from
class-based to skills-based character generation). T4 doesn't do either.

        Thus, I don't think T4 is innovative.  I think (albeit what I hear
of Starships has me worried that the guys implementing it might not be up
to the task) that OTOH, it has the possibility of become great.

        Why?  It is a fairly simple, elegant SF RPG with a hard-sf bent but
room for soft sf if you want it.  It has very enjoyable design systems that
add a lot to the gaming.  It might eventually have good background
materials.  And of course, there's the setting: the whole bloody universe.
That's a lot of room.

        I think that in general, although I haven't played any of these,
that in comparison Star Bores is just (yaaaawn) a merchandising phenomenon
and more to the point bad sf,  and that Fading Suns and especially White
Wolf's upcoming Exile are just a little too thematically limited; they
trade room for variety for feel.  I suspect that Exile might be really bad
in that respect; I can just see it now: "great... here we are angst-ridden
exiles from human space, sitting around a dingy cafe in a dingy station
wearing lots of black, bemoaning the high Gothic tragedy of our horrifying
existence.  <lots of high roleplaying of dubious quality ensues>  And the
coffee *sucks*.  Let's get some stakes and go beat up on the Camaril... er,
wups, nevermind..."

        To get to the point and then back to the books.  Sometimes,
innovation is not neccessarily good.  Sometimes being a very, very good
non-innovative product is all you need to do well.  I mean, for some
things, nothing tops a good solid claw hammer with a nice non-slip rubber
grip...  Even though you can still do some cool stuff with a power hammer,
it just isn't the same.

        Back to the books...

*-------------------------------------------------------------*
| Roderick D. Elliott... rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca              |
|                        elliot_r@lsa.lan.mcgill.ca           |
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
| "...an imperfect plan implemented immediately and violently |
| will always succeed better than a perfect plan."            |
|                        -Gen. George S. Patton.              |
*-------------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:56:10 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Unwise order of publication!

One of my biggest problems with the new edition of Traveller is it's 
redundancy with prior materials.
Information about starships, Aliens and Equipment is still widely 
available in the shops from earlier editions of Traveller, just see 
the Imperial Encyclopedia for a good example.

I feel it would have been wiser to first publish the rules (as they 
did) and then directly the first Millieu /(which isn't even printed 
at this time) an RPG in this day and age needs a background and when 
the other information is still available on can wait reprinting them 
until the basics are out.

This also increases sales, btw: 
I won't buy Starships (becxause i own all the old stuff from CT to 
MT, which is fully compatible, and due to the bad review)
I don't know yet wheather i'll buy Aliens (I'll compare it to the DGP-
Modules first)
 I won't buy the new equipment book (i have the old stuff and to me 
equipment isd not that necessary, i'll invent it myself, normally)
I will, however, buy all the new Millieux, since they include NEW 
STUFF, NOT AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE! That's what i really want. 
However, IG keeps concentrating on material, that, although necessary 
in the long run, could without problem, be published at a much later 
date!

My two Pfennigs,

Ps.: What about the DGP revival? Anybody know anything by now or have 
they crawled back into their hidey-holes?


 


V.A.G.       
- ------ Volker A. Greimann............Grei5001@uni-trier.de ----
- ------ Gamer, Student of Law, Secret Master, Bane of DOS ---- 

- -"Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!"

FNORD!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:07:18 -0600
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@tfs.net>
Subject: Re: Deckplans

At 10:36 AM 12/16/96 +0000, you wrote:
>The "Eagle" may well be released as a BITS/CORE product in 1997, with a
>series of linked adventures...

That is great news, Andy.  I liked the module, The Long Way Home.  It is a
return to the type of Traveller that I like.  If fact the only thing that I
am upset about is that I read it already...(I found out last night that the
module is being run on the Undernet on Wednesday Night and I can't play
(serious sad face).

Is the Eagle the deckplans I saw in Schweinfurt?  They were great.  If the
linked adventures is anything like TLWH, I am interested.

I emailed Jo yesterday about the card game. I have heard anything back yet.

Andy keep up the good ideas.  It is nice to know someone understands what
real Traveller products should be.

JD
Twolf>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:15:01 +1100 (EST)
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Re: Foss art, etc

Dear Folks -

I have to agree with Grant. I *loved* Donna Barr's artwork. Do you remember
the "Been good to know ya" nuke pic in "'Til They Glow..", or the captain
and crew trying to make sense of world maps (both JTAS22), or the classic
"Starship Malfunctions" pic (JTAS15) with all the intricate little high-tech
parts lying around in pieces as the crew pores over the tech manual.

They were the perfect foil when everyone (myself included) started taking
the whole thing too seriously. It's a GAME, for goodness sake! You're
_supposed_ to have fun! That's why it's so silly when everyone starts
arguing about "how technology should work", and so forth. Might as well
argue about the "whichness of the why" or whatever. Argue about things that
affect game balance, or that affect the standard history, but not that "this
bit of equipment should be able to do such-and-such". Rather, say WHY it
should, in terms that speak to game balance, flow of game play, character
development, and so on.

Ahh well, enough ranting. I might as well put in a plug for Bill Keith also
- - _the_ definitive Traveller artist (not only because of the _HUGE_ quantity
of work he produced).
________________________________________________________________________
Hyphen (David Jaques-Watson)                         davidjw@pcug.org.au
http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:25:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Lan Kelly <CyberWere@ConnectI.com>
Subject: Re: Admin Question

At 19:30 12/16/96, James wrote:
>Hello Lan,
>
>> Could someone please post the correct address for Majordomo of this list.
>
>  Either traveller-request@mpgn.com or majordomo@list.mpgn.com. Both work, I
>believe.
>
>> Also looked for a FAQ and the site ftp.mpgn.com doesn't respond.  Where did
>> everything go?
>
>  Try http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd/tml-faq.html for the FAQ. Also, I will
>post the FAQ here later this week.  As for ftp.mpgn.com, it has just worked for
>me, so I am not really sure what is going on there.
>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
>  No problems.
>
>BFN,
>James Dempsey
>---------------------------------------------
> email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
> homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd


Thanks, 

Going to the FAQ Subscribe/Unsubscribe I see that the address has changed to
majordomo@lists.MPGN.COM.  The address listed in my old copy of the  FAQ and
"Welcome to Traveller" response is (now was)  majordomo@MPGN.COM.

Apparently the @lists. caused the problem.

LAN


Lan Kelly       CyberWere@ ConnectI.com      San Antonio, Texas
***********
"Good Times, Deeyenda" = verbigeration
 n. the constant or obsessive repetition of meaningless words or phrases, as
in mental illness. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:36:15 -0600
From: "Knight, Kevin" <KKnight@KellerCrescent.com>
Subject: RE: Writing Contest Update

>Tired of getting raped by AOL, huh, Harold.  Me too.  I used to be 
>with AOL, but that per hour crap is for the birds.
>
>AOL has a nice set up, but at those prices, who needs it when you can 
>get all the important stuff, with unlimited time, for $20 a month.
>
>They remind me of Blockbuster.  Don't get me started on Blockbuster.
>
>Kenneth.

Uh, last time I checked, AOL gave you unlimited time for $19.95US per
month... also, if you only use it a little bit (3 hours or less per
month), you can get on for $4.95US per month... plus, AOL has an 800
number that they only charge 0.10US per minute to use (otherwise I'd
have to dial long distance which would be a whole lot more...)

Kevin K.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 10:12:20 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Strength of Aslans and Domain of Deneb (Long)

In a message dated 96-12-13 16:57:16 EST, Talisman wrote:

> unsubscribe

Was it something I said? ;-)

Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, Ignorance."--- Socrates

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:00:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship construction

Thad Coons writes:
>I think the biggest difference between what you are using and what I
>propose is that you are using a system based on the *tonnage* of a ship,
>while mine is based on the *cost*. Military vessels cost more than civilian
>vessels (weapons, armor), of the same tonnage and the cost goes up somewhat
>faster than the size. If the benefits go up faster than the cost, it's
>still economical, but it shouldn't be easy or cheap.

Not in Classic Traveller (I never got comfortable with Megatraveller designs
and FF&S, so it's possible that things are different under them). Small
ships cost ~0.75 MCr per ton, big ships cost ~0.5 to 0.75 MCr per ton. 
Anyway, things don't have to be easy or cheap when you have 45 trillion 
credit per year to spend on new construction. Besides, I don't really care 
to defend the time when the Vargr would have been kicked out of Corridor 
too vehemently since I don't believe they would ever get far into it. If 
you want to double the time it takes to construct them, be my guest. The 
Vargr are still out of Corridor before 1125.

>I guess it comes down to personal preferences, but I don't like the high
>construction rates that TCS can give you for heavy military craft. 

However those are the ones we have to work with. I don't know enough about
the subject to say wether they are realistic (Perhaps some WW2 scholar can
help us?). The figures are for example 144 weeks to build a 5000 T ship, 
174 weeks to build a 20,000 T ship, and 224 weeks to build a 200,000 T ship.

In one example that I worked out I had Mikesh building 2600 Sloan Class
escorts in 72 weeks (and starting on ~2300 more), 1250 20,000 T cruisers
in 87 weeks (and starting on ~1100 more), and 220 200,000 T Plankwell Class
Dreadnaughts in 112 weeks. That is with construction bonuses for class
ships and overtime payments according to the rules.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 12:01:19 -0500
From: lewis@slipher.chara.gsu.edu.chara.gsu.edu (Lewis Roberts)
Subject: Small Craft in Starships are Broken!

Hi,
Well I finally got Starships and I figured I give my opinions.  I don't
mind the art, some of the B&W pictures are good and some not so good.  

The main problem with the deckplans is that they don't follow the ship
very well. I think it is the Free Trader which lists 10 staterooms, and
the plans only show 8.  Also for some reason some of the statrooms
change size on the same ship.  On the Royal Class Luxury Liner, the
plans list MiddlePassage staterooms, but there aren't any such
passengers on the ship, I don't know where the Artist got that idea from. :(
Also, the plans list jump drives, manuver drive and engine.  What is an
engine if it isn't a jump drive or a manuver drive. ???

I am listed as the designer of two ships, the Modular Cutter, and the
Luxury Liner. But the Modular Cutter is not the one I designed.  I am
pretty sure that the Modular Cutter can't be built with the present
design rules.  It is listed at 4-G acceleration and TL-9.  But at TL-9
there is no grav compesation available, so the crews will be squished
flat.  Also small fusion plants are unavailable at TL-9, requiring,
either a huge ship, or a fission power plant, which is so heavy that
the ship can't go very fast.  

I think Don Perrin just looked up the stats for TL-15 spacecraft and
just fudged the lower tech level versions.  I doubt that many of the
small craft are even doable with the SSDS rules.  There is no mention
of Fusion Plus, and rules for it are not listed in the SSDS rules, so I
don't think you can say the fighters use Fusion Plus.  I'll try to make
up some of the small craft to see if they actually follow the rules.  

Someone was mentioning the personalities section. Don Perrin didn't do
these, in the credits they are listed to someone else. A woman I believe.  

I'll send in the designs I made up for the Cutter and Luxury Liner, so
people can see what the individual crew members do and the like.

Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:What did Noah use to light up the Ark? 
A:Floodlights!        
       
lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 12:05:30 -0500
From: lewis@slipher.chara.gsu.edu.chara.gsu.edu (Lewis Roberts)
Subject: Luxury Liner

Hi,
here is the design sheet for the Luxury LIner in Starships, I figured
some of you might want to see all the details. I figured out ticket
prices. High Passage goes for 25,000Cr and Super High Passage goes for
60,000Cr.  Not for the average adventurer.
Lewis Roberts
 
Royal Class Liner
Tons:5000		Volume:70,000		Price:1392.55MCr
Crew:185		Passengers (H/M):514	Passengers (L): 0
Cargo: 12		Controls:Std/Bridge	Tech Level: 11

09 Size Rating                  02 Jump Rating
03 Fire Control Rating          01 G Rating / Thruster
8-4-2-1 Battery of 10 Lasers    0.8 Power Plant Rating (1x 100 MW)
00 Battery                      1000 Fuel Rating
00 Battery                      00 Meson Screen Rating
00 Battery                      05(24) Sand Caster Rating
00 Battery                      00 Damper Rating
00 Battery                      A4 P4 J0 Sensors TL11 Adv Civ
00 Battery
00 Battery                      0 Armor       22 Structure

Crew Description:
Notes: The Royal is a USL box.  It carries a crew of 20 Engineers,
9 maintenance staff, 1 electronics operator, 16 Gunners, 2 Flight Crew,
80 Stewards, 5 doctors, a pilot, a navigator and 8 Command Crew. A
42 piece orchestra is also on board.
It carries a 95 ton shuttle in a minimal hanger.

Description:
	The Royal class of liners is designed with luxury in mind. It is
how the Nobles of the new Imperium travel the stars, along with the super rich.
The Royal is outfitted with every conceivable luxury, it features a
Grand Ballroom with one of  the finest Sylean Style chamber orchestras
in the sector.  A high rollers casino, where the super rich can try to
become even richer.  A sports center with a small swimming pool and
variable gravity weight lifting equipment.  The finest in original holo
movies are shown each night in the Grand Salon.  20 of the finest chefs
from the Imperium create masterpieces of culinary delight each and
every night. An excellent sickbay and an expert staff of physicians
stand ready in case an medical emergency arise.  The staff is highly
trained and taught how to deal with the rich and famous with the utmost
of discretion.  
	The Royal class has 414 standard high passage rooms, and 100 super-high
passage suites which have twice the space and are even more pampered
than the other guests.  
	The ship carries a shuttle craft to load and unload passengers.
 Each ship is named for members of the Imperial Family, and several of
the Emperor's nieces have traveled on a Royal liner, and have raved
about their stay.  More members of the Imperial family are expected to
soon take a cruise.  
	Each Royal ship is equipped with a state of art defense grid, and all
members of the staff are cross-trained in security matters, so as to be able
assure passengers of their safety.  It mounts an Advanced Civilian Sensor suite.

Worksheet:
		Mass	Vol	Power	Price
Hull:Internal	120	12	-	.108
        Armor	1200	120	-	.432
        Airlocks 10x     10	150	.05	.25
Thrusters 1G	2500	1250	1250	312.5
Jump-2		6300	2100	-	630
Fuel		14000	14000	-	-
Weapons:
10x 150Mj Laser   1190	840	42	65.6
1MFD		46.3	41.1	6.4	34.06
5 Sandcasters	250	210	5	3.75
Controls		7	70	5	7.5
Adv Civ Sensors	27.9	34.3	51.3	29.38
Life Support	40	40	1	2.5
Grav Comp	1400	700	350	35
Sickbay		50	112	.8	5
95 ton Minimal 
Hanger		532	2660	-	.533
Ballroom	9000	9000	-	3  
Casino		500	500	-	1
Sports/Rec	500	500	-	1
2000MW Fusion  	4000	1000	-	200
6 months Fuel	150	150	-	-
Crew: TL 11 computer and high integration factor
66.8 Engineers=>20
12.56 maintenance=>9
16 Gunners =>16
2 Maneuver=>2
Cmd=>8
Flt Crew=>2
Stewards=>80
Doc:=>5
Orchestra=>42
The captain and First officer have single sm staterooms,
the rest of the command staff is two to a room, and the 
crew is triple bunked.
64 Sm Staterooms
		12.8	1792	-	2.56
		2484	34776	-	62.1
Cargo		166	166	-	.01
 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #760
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